Podcast: Punchcard

How to Radicalise an Accountant w/ Abbas Shapuri

Posted on November 11, 2025 by Caleb -

Punchcard

How to Radicalise an Accountant w/ Abbas Shapuri

00:00 / 32:46

Abbas Shapuri’s journey into the worker co-operative movement is not a typical one. Many worker co-operators arrive from the “alternative” or activist scenes. Abbas, however, came from the heart of capitalism: corporate accountancy.

In this episode of Punchcard, Abbas and I talk about what led to him betraying his politics and values to work at big corporate firms, like KPMG & IHG, and how he eventually managed to escape.

Help connect more workers like Abbas with the worker co-op movement & support for Punchcard £5/month on Open Collective

⚖️ From the Corporate World to The Co-op One

Something I was thinking about when talking to Abbas is how many other people there must be in the same position that he was in – stuck in a corporate job that clashes with their values, unable to see an alternative, or too afraid to take the jump. How do we reach those people?

Abbas’s journey has plenty of twists and turns, but the one that seems the most impactful is his best friend Aqeel. Aqeel shared Abbas’s politics, but acted on it – joining a Radical Routes housing co-op, discovering Third Sector Accountancy and introducing Abbas to the illusive world of co-ops.

And this points to a solution, but also an issue. If Abbas hadn’t had Aqeel, a friend inside a housing co-op, he might never have found his way in. The worker co-op sector’s growth is held back by our reach, and if we want it to grow, we need to start punching above our weight.

That’s why I started Punchcard, to introduce people to co-ops at scale. To share the stories that make people stop and think “maybe I don’t have to keep working like this”. If Abbas did it, maybe I can too.

Support Punchcard for £5/month to take us to the next level – better audio, better video, greater reach!

[→ Support Punchcard on Open Collective ▷]

💼 Learning from the Enemy

Abbas is the second Punchcard guest to highlight the benefits of spending some time working outside of worker co-ops. While our self-taught, DIY ethos is powerful, the reality is that KPMG gave Abbas access to skills and experiences that you’d struggle to find in a worker co-op.

The same message came from our episode with Ai Van, who, while at the Leeds Bread Co-op read traditional business management books and brought us the £1 model. She has since left the Leeds Bread Co-op to see what she can learn from working in a traditional business and may return with more insights and tools that could strengthen our co-ops.

Building on the impact of Ai Van’s episode, season 2 of Punchcard is featuring more innovators and practical solutions for worker co-ops. Upcoming guests include Paul from Navigate, sharing tools & frameworks to manage conflict, and Steffi, Novara Media’s fundraiser, discussing fundraising campaigns and the power of newsletters.

💬 What other useful tools & frameworks would you like us to explore on Punchcard?
[→ Share your thoughts in the workers.coop forum ▷]

📈 Growing the Co-op Accountancy Sector

According to Third Sector Accountancy they have no shortage of organisations asking for accountancy support. So why aren’t they growing to meet the need?

A common concern for Abbas, and many other cooperators, is the risk of diluting or losing the values and ethos of their co-op. So how do we build and maintain cooperative culture?

In a previous episode of Punchcard, Beau explained how Suma Wholefoods strengthens its values through a secondary set of principles, a framework that goes deeper than the standard seven international cooperative principles and the members have more ownership over.

Unicorn Grocery takes this a step further, embedding their values into the rhythm of daily life with fortnightly trainings where members can present everything from sectoral trends to how to better include neurodivergent members.

💬 What about your co-op? How do you maintain your co-op’s values & culture?
[→ Share your answer on the workers.coop forum▷]

Help connect more workers like Abbas with the worker co-op movement

Worker co-operatives are still a fringe model, known by few and understood by even fewer. Punchcard exists to change that, bringing co-operative ideas and real-world stories into public consciousness.

By building a dedicated worker co-op podcast, we’re reaching new audiences and showing that another way of working is not only possible – it’s already happening.

We’re aiming for 50 listeners donating £5/month to take Punchcard to the next level – better audio, better video, and greater reach.

[→ Support Punchcard on Open Collective ▷]

Thank you to everyone who has supported Punchcard and helped us get to this point,

– Caleb Elliott & Punchcard

🎧 Listen, follow & rate Punchcard on workers.coop/podcast, Overcast, PocketCasts, RSS, Spotify, Apple Podcasts & Youtube or wherever you get your podcasts

Classism in Cooperatives w/ Elle Glenny

Posted on December 11, 2025 by Caleb -

Punchcard

Classism in Cooperatives w/ Elle Glenny

00:00 / 43:59

Unfortunately not everybody’s experience of cooperatives is positive. For Elle, their time in co-operatives was both transformative, but also painful, marred by classism that often goes unnamed.

In this episode of Punchcard, Elle and I talk about what classism looks like in co-ops, how we can transform it and why inclusion isn’t enough.

Listen to the full interview on workers.coop/podcast, Overcast, PocketCasts, RSS, Spotify, Apple Podcasts & Youtube or wherever you get your podcasts

🏠 Cultural Domination

Co-ops tend to be far more accessible to middle-class people – those with higher education, spare time, savings, and inheritance. That shapes who can access co-ops and quietly sets middle-class culture as the default.

Middle class norms then define how we communicate, behave, argue, and organise. Anything outside of that framework is subtly flagged as unprofessional, disruptive, or “not the right fit.” That’s how working class ways of being (in all their intersectional forms) get sidelined, suppressed, and erased.

💸 Inclusion Isn’t Enough

We can, and should, keep learning how our cultures marginalise others. But as Elle (and Taylor, in her episode) both emphasise, inclusion is not enough. Often it causes harm by placing the responsibility on marginalised people to adapt.

The deeper issue is power. Working-class people often lack real decision-making power, leaving them dependent on the goodwill of those who have it. Inclusion becomes assimilation.

🔧 Shifting Power

Elle is part of a network of redistribution groups that have been forming across the UK. These groups have been set up to give real power to working class members, including power to choose how to redistribute the groups financial resources.

These groups are cross class collectives, where traditional hierarchies are flipped on their heads – working class cultural norms are centred, decisions are weighted in favour of working class members, and access to resources, especially financial resources, are transferred to the group.

❤️ Support Punchcard

Elle’s work on class pushes the worker co-op movement to confront its blind spots and grow. If you want Punchcard to keep platforming voices like hers, please consider supporting the show.

We are aiming to get 50 listeners to donate £5/month.
Your support helps us improve production quality and reach more people.

→ Support Punchcard on Open Collective

The Growth of Unicorn Grocery Worker Co-op w/ Corrina O’Brien

Posted on January 14, 2026 by Caleb -

Punchcard

The Growth of Unicorn Grocery Worker Co-op w/ Corrina O’Brien

00:00 / 22:01

Starting off as a small shop operating out of a loading bay to a thriving worker co-op that owns its own the entire building, has around 50 dedicated members and is a shining example of what worker cooperatives can accomplish.

In this episode of Punchcard, Corrina and I talk about how Unicorn has become such a success and how they plan to develop further.

👉 Support Punchcard on Open Collective

Standing on the Shoulders of Giants

Unicorn was Corrina’s introduction to worker co-ops, and at first she didn’t fully grasp what being a worker-owner would change. It took leaving Unicorn to understand what made it special.

That understanding has grown, and is accompanied by an appreciation for the decades of work and sacrifice made by earlier members, especially the founders. Because of the foundations they laid, Corrina now benefits from a workplace that offers a level of control and security beyond what she has experienced before.

Growing Without Growth

In 2015, Unicorn seriously explored opening a second store. Ultimately, members decided against it, concerned about the strain it would place on the co-op. Instead, they focused on strengthening the original shop, while continuing to provide support to the wider movement and projects externally.

In our interview Corrina talks through how Unicorn is growing their impact without simply getting bigger. From redeveloping its site, contributing a percentage of its wage bill to a solidarity fund for projects with shared values, developing a comprehensive ‘Grow-A-Grocery’ guide for budding new co-operators based on their experience, and sharing resources with groups like Kindling Farm.

The Cost of Playing It Safe

It’s a shame that Unicorn decided not to open a second store, and it seems to reflect a wider pattern in the co-op sector (particularly visible with housing co-ops), where growing success increases the capacity for risk, but the appetite for it shrinks.

While supporting projects externally is valuable and effective, this risk-aversion is likely limiting how quickly the worker co-op sector grows, and the scale of impact co-ops could have if they were bolder.

❤️ Support Punchcard

Corrina was lucky to find a job at Unicorn Grocery, but there are fewer than 400 worker co-ops in the UK, and far too few places where workers have real control over their work.

Punchcard exists to help change that. By sharing the stories, experiences, and hard-won lessons of worker co-ops across different industries, the show helps make democratic workplaces visible, imaginable, and achievable.

Punchcard is at a crucial stage. We’re looking for just 50 listeners to contribute £5/month to keep documenting, sharing, and growing the collective knowledge of the worker co-op movement.

If you want Punchcard to keep amplifying voices like Corrina’s, and helping more workers find their way into co-ops, please consider supporting the show.

👉 Support Punchcard on Open Collective

Berlin’s Worker Co-op for Migrants & Cleaners w/ Rupay Dahm

Posted on February 17, 2026 by Caleb -

Punchcard

Berlin's Worker Co-op for Migrants & Cleaners w/ Rupay Dahm

00:00 / 29:23

Rupay is an employment lawyer in Germany, fighting for workers’ rights. Frustrated, working in a system rigged against workers, he sought out more empowering alternatives and discovered worker cooperatives. After years of researching and advising them as a lawyer, he went on to write A Practical Guide to Democratising Companies and to co-found a cooperative for cleaners.

In this episode of Punchcard, Rupay shares his experience incubating the cleaning cooperative and the importance that trust and social connections played within that.

👉 Help us spread the word about worker co-ops –> support Punchcard on Open Collective

Can You Found a Co-op for Someone Else?

Rupay observed that co-ops were made up of mostly white, academic and managerial types, so he set out to create a more diverse co-operative, centering cleaners and migrant workers.

This approach raised alarm bells for Rupay and people around him, such approaches inherently introduce power dynamics that can suppress alternative ways of working, and create dependency rather than empowerment. Yet, according to Rupay, they were able to navigate these threats and create a co-op led by cleaners and migrants.

🎧 Listen to the whole episode to find out how

It’s Personal

It’s easy to overlook just how important interpersonal relations and trust are in cooperatives. Rupay initially focused on implementing the policies and structures he had studied, but quickly realised that the relationships between members were far more fundamental.

At first, the co-op was medicated through Rupay, since nobody else knew each other. Cleaning is notoriously an atomising job, as many shifts are worked along, so they paired members together on cleaning shifts and introduced weekly meeting to build relationships. As trust grew it allowed roles and responsibilities to be shared across the group, to the stage where Rupay was able to step away, leaving the co-ops to flourish alone.

🗣️ In next month’s episode I speak to mediator Paul Kahawatte about how to navigate conflict

Is This Why Most Co-ops Stay Small?

Rupay set out to create a cooperative capable of scaling and having a broader impact than many other co-ops. What he discovered however, is that it’s difficult to scale the human connections that sustain the democratic and participatory culture. This is a issue that keeps coming up and was echoed by previous guests, Corrina and Abbas.

In my search of solutions, I interviewed Aiofe Smith from the Great Care Co-op at workers.coop’s Autumn Assembly. They are experimenting with the Buurtzorg model from Holland to build a 1,000+ worker co-op in Ireland, an ambitious attempt to scale without losing the cooperative ethos.

Aiofe’s episode will be published in summer this year.

❤️ Support Punchcard

Punchcard’s first episode reached only 100 people, now our worker cooperative podcast is reaching over 5,000 people !

If you want to help Punchcard keep raising the profile of worker co-ops and championing worker control, consider supporting Punchcard on Open Collective

We’re looking for just 23 more listeners to contribute £5/month to keep the show stable and continuing to grow

👉 Support Punchcard on Open Collective

🎧 Listen to Punchcard on workers.coop/podcast or wherever you get your podcasts

How to Resolve Conflict Cooperatively w/ Paul Kahawatte

Posted on March 19, 2026 by Caleb -

Punchcard

How to Resolve Conflict Cooperatively w/ Paul Kahawatte

00:00 / 00:36:48

Conflict is an inevitability, but most of us are surprisingly bad at dealing with it. We fall back on habits like avoidance, passive aggression, or lashing out. In a cooperative, when we’ve come together to increase our collective capacity, unresolved tensions can quickly bog us down, drain the energy and lead to disengagement.

So what does it look like to handle conflict well?

This month Punchcard’s guest is Paul Kahawatte, a member of Navigate and an experienced mediator working with communities, cooperatives, and social movements. In my interview with him, he shares the structures and processes he uses to ward off conflict, catch it early, and resolve it in ways that strengthen, rather than fracture.

🎧 Listen to the full interview with Paul on workers.coop/punchcard or wherever you get your podcasts

Catching Conflict Early

One thing Paul emphasised throughout our conversation was the importance of noticing conflict early and asking for support if you can’t face it alone. Too often we ignore tensions because they feel too small to bring up.

Conflict doesn’t always start with dramatic confrontation. More often it begins with small frustrations: someone feels another member isn’t pulling their weight, messages go unanswered, or two people quietly disagree about the direction of a project. On their own these moments seem minor, but over time they can build resentment and slowly erode trust and hold us back.

The good news is that small conflicts are easier to resolve. Addressing something early might mean a five-minute conversation instead of a five-month standoff. And like any skill, the more often we practise it, the easier it becomes.

👉 Want more practical co-op tools like this? Help us make more –> support Punchcard on Open Collective

What to Do When in Conflict

A key take away from this interview was Paul’s step-by-step approach navigating conflict once it has arisen:

Level 1 – Listen to yourself
What has upset you? What value or need feels threatened? Sometimes this can be enough

Level 2 – Share it with someone neutral
Tell a neutral figure who is a good listener and won’t take sides.

Level 3 – Talk with others involved in the conflict
Sit down together and talk openly. Can you understand each other and agree on a way to move forward?

Level 4 – Silent observer
Another member attends the meeting, sitting in silence but adding a layer of accountability and support.

Level 5 – Mediation
A trained mediator facilitates a structured process and helps make agreements.

Level 6 – Uni-lateral action
If resolution isn’t possible or someone refuses to engage, the co-op may have to step in and resolve the conflict

👀 We’ve pulled this breakdown into its own 10-minute clip — watch it here

Agree the Process Before You Need It

Just as you set up a kitchen before you get hungry, you need infrastructure in place that will address conflict before you urgently need it, because that is the hardest time to agree on one.

In Navigate’s living system work, they highlight a few preconditions for creating and maintaining an effective system: Members need to fully understand and consent to the process in advance, it needs to be easy to find and simple to use, and the co-op needs to make space for the members to engage with it.

With these foundations in place, even small conflicts have a clear path toward resolution, and the co-op’s culture of trust and collaboration is preserved.

📚You can find Navigate’s free living systems resources here

❤️ Support Punchcard

After the positive response to Ai Van’s episode featuring the £1 model, I’ve been working on getting more guests on Punchcard who have practical solutions to worker cooperative challenges.

If you found this episode useful, and want more like it, help us by supporting Punchcard on Open Collective. Your contributions are helping us to create an archive of practical resources that strengthen workplace democracy.

👉 Support Punchcard on Open Collective

🎧 Listen to Punchcard on workers.coop/podcast or wherever you get your podcasts

Welcome to Punchcard

Posted on May 16, 2024 by Caleb -

Punchcard

Welcome to Punchcard

00:00 / 1:32

Welcome to Punchcard! Listen to 1-on-1 interview with a worker cooperator sharing their stories, experiences and insights.

Share & support Punchcard to move conversation away from traditional capitalist businesses towards worker controlled alternatives.

Punchcard is produced by workers.coop and Principle Six.

Building workers.coop the UK’s Worker Coop Federation w/ Sam Nordland

Posted on June 11, 2024 by Caleb -

Punchcard

Building workers.coop the UK’s Worker Coop Federation w/ Sam Nordland

00:00 / 36:56

Sam Nordland speaks to Punchcard about being a member of Gung Ho Housing Cooperative, a co-founding member of the Warehouse Cafe Workers Cooperative, a member of Stirchley Development Cooperative and now works for workers.coop the UK based federation of worker cooperatives.

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Support us by contributing as little as £1 per month at opencollective.com/workerscoop/projects/punchcard

Listen, follow & rate Punchcard on workers.coop/podcast, Spotify, Apple Podcasts & Youtube

The Rise & Fall of Black Cat Cafe Workers Cooperative w/ Nacho Gomez

Posted on July 22, 2024 by Caleb -

Punchcard

The Rise & Fall of Black Cat Cafe Workers Cooperative w/ Nacho Gomez

00:00 / 32:52

In this episode Nacho speaks candidly about the highs & the lows of his & Carla’s 10 year journey with Black Cat Cafe. Even though from the outside Black Cat Cafe seems to be extremely successful Nacho shares about the constant challenges they faced – the difficulties paying members & staff fairly, and the set backs when trying to attract & retain worker members.

Nacho & Caleb also reflect on the lessons learnt & we celebrate what Black Cat Cafe has achieved – having become a landmark in the vegan, activist & cooperative scenes for its pioneering vegan cuisine & dedication to supporting its community & activists.

Black Cat Cafe may stop being a workers cooperative, but as Sam Nordland said in Episode 1 painting co-op business closures as failures isn’t always useful, because “we provided jobs for ourselves for a number of years & we introduced a lot of young people to working in a cooperative setting”.

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Support us by contributing as little as £1 per month at opencollective.com/workerscoop/projects/punchcard

Listen, follow & rate Punchcard on workers.coop/podcast, Spotify, Apple Podcasts & Youtube

3 Keys to Strengthen Cooperative Democracy w/ Owen Powell

Posted on October 2, 2024 by Caleb -

Punchcard

3 Keys to Strengthen Cooperative Democracy w/ Owen Powell

00:00 / 43:41

In this episode of Punchcard, we sit down with Owen Powell, a lecturer and researcher with a focus on cooperative democracy. Owen first cut his teeth in the Young Cooperators Network, a national initiative formed by young people seeking cooperative alternatives to traditional economic models following the 2008 financial crash. Since then, he has completed a PhD that examined how larger and more established worker cooperatives maintain collectivist democracy over time.

In his PhD research, Owen identified 3 critical factors for strengthening cooperative democracy:

Member Induction, Integration, and Involvement
A Culture of Reviewing and Refreshing Established Norms
Bringing in Learning and Expertise from Outside

Owen remains deeply committed to the cooperative movement, actively contributing to workers.coop as a member of their research working group. The group has already published two significant reports on the organisation’s collectivist health, offering valuable insights into the sustainability of cooperative principles.

Join us as we explore Owen’s work and discuss how research can support and empower cooperatives to survive the winds of change.

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Support us by contributing as little as £1 per month at opencollective.com/workerscoop/projects/punchcard

Listen, follow & rate Punchcard on workers.coop/podcast, Spotify, Apple Podcasts & Youtube

How to Make Decisions with 200 Worker Members w/ Beau Bulman

Posted on December 11, 2024 by Caleb -

Punchcard

How to Make Decisions with 200 Worker Members w/ Beau Bulman

00:00 / 36:57

In this episode of Punchcard, we speak to Beau Bulman, one of the People Development Coordinators at Suma Wholefoods Worker Cooperative, about the challenges and compromises required to practice direct democracy within a cooperative of 200 worker-members, as well as sharing insights into improving member recruitment, member induction, and sustaining a cooperative culture.

In addition to the conversation with Beau, Suma has shared their seven internal cooperative principles, that they use alongside the seven International Cooperative Principles:

Suma members multi-skill.
They actively seek out training and development to enable them to take on roles in both office and non-office areas (where practical and reasonable).
Suma members see the bigger picture.
They have a broad knowledge of Suma and have an understanding of the wider business environment.
Suma members put in more than they take out.
They work for the collective good, actively promoting cooperative values.
Suma members communicate openly and honestly.
They are professional and approachable, endeavouring to understand the viewpoint of others.
Suma members actively seek out responsibility.
They self-manage and involve themselves in the management and development of their business.
Suma members are flexible.
They are responsive to the changing needs of their business.
Suma members are hardworking and have a can-do attitude.
They monitor both the quality of their work and their productivity to ensure they meet member standard.

Listen in as we explore Beau’s work and strategies for cultivating democracy & collective responsibility.

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Support us by contributing as little as £1 per month at opencollective.com/workerscoop/projects/punchcardListen, follow & rate Punchcard on workers.coop/podcast, Spotify, Apple Podcasts & Youtube